Sunday, March 16, 2008

Dumb on a variety of levels

Freedom Williams, the frontman of the two-hit wonder group C & C Music Factory, once said the following, "I always said that if Martians could talk, they would rap. Because singing has already been done, and they'd want to do something new." (Okay, I may be paraphrasing here, but it was the sort of thing that made a pretty big impression on me, and I still remember the gist of it so many years later.)

What's remarkable is that most dumb things only have one level to it. This statement though, has layers upon layers of idiocy. I mean, do Martians even exist? If so, why can't they talk? And if they can talk, why wouldn't they just talk? Why are Martians so cutting edge that they feel the need to do new things? Who's to say that they're not more rooted in tradition than we are? And then you always say this? You've actually thought about it, said it, and then repeated it? Man, the mind truly does boggle.

I think that somebody has topped it though. I'm not sure if it has as many levels, but the sheer fact that it addresses a serious issue is what makes it my new number one.

Before introducing it, I want to point out that I've been checking out other blogs lately, including some "conservative" ones. I really don't like defining myself as liberal. After all, I've never tried marijuana, so just how liberal could I possibly be? Still, I think that most people who consider themselves to be conservative would label me as being liberal.

Generally speaking, while I disagree with most of the self-labeled conservatives out there, I don't find a great deal of fault with them. In many ways, they're not too different from me, and when it comes to what's important, we're probably pretty close.

However, just as there are leftist idiots (see the folks who protest the Marine recruiters in Berkeley) out there, there are most definitely some morons on the right. The thing that really kills me about them (and perhaps it stands out more for me when they do it, considering my biases and all) is the complete and total disregard for these important little things called facts. I just read one entry which was written by an obviously literate, educated person, but she made the statement that "all" of our Presidents have been Christians. I was actually going to comment and point out some of the decidedly ANTI-Christian things that Thomas Jefferson said. Somebody beat me to it, and pointed out that he was in fact a Deist. Was there any correction or "mea culpa"? Of course not. Facts, shmacts - they only get in the way. Who knows, maybe the blogger just felt that Thomas Jefferson "doesn't count", even though she referenced him several times in the post. Whatever, he's no William Howard Taft.

The ultimate in lunacy is the following: Outlaw Islam!

Where do I start with this? Should I start with the irony that the site is titled "Freedom ain't Free"? I mean, is outlawing a religion kinda, you know, not respecting freedom? Don't get me started on the phrase on the top of the page, "Victory is not defeat." Wow. Deep. What's next, "Chocolate is not vanilla"? "Sauerkraut is not Legos"? Ugh.

Okay, let's look at the heart of this. The guy who writes this thing uses the usual out-of-context quotes to make his point. I could do a whole series of blogs on how you can do the same thing regarding the Bible, but there are plenty of other websites out there that have already done it. (Besides, I'm too fond of eating rock-badger to be reminded of the fact that I'm not supposed to eat it.) He also points out all the undeniable acts of terrorism, while ignoring that the majority of the world's billion and a half Muslims actually aren't terrorists. They're just, you know, people.

Let's forget all of that for a moment though. Let's say I agree. Let's say that Islam is far too dangerous of a religion to be seen simply as a religion. This leaves one mighty big chunk of falafel that can't be ignored: HOW THE HELL WOULD THIS POSSIBLY BE ENFORCED????

And where do you draw the line? What about the World Bahai Faith? They incorporate the teachings of Muhammed in their religion (along with other faiths.) Do we require them to just drop that part, or do we ban them outright as well? What about The Koran? Are we going to become book-burners as well? What about guys like Resa Aslan, who, although a Muslim, regards the stories of the Koran to be myths that should not be taken literally? Shoot, how about Hussein Ibish, who claims to be an agnostic for the Muslim community? Will he simply have to be an agnostic now? Is the topic of Islam now off-limits to the Unitarians?

And can you really stop somebody from believing what they believe? I mean, the Romans tried that with the Christians, and that worked out pretty well. But those were the Romans, and they were incorruptable, so I doubt that we have that kind of wherewithal. Who's to stop somebody from saying that they're a Christian, but then actually believing that Muhammad was the last prophet? Are we really going to start employing the Thought Police now?

Here's the thing. For the most part, I can respect people with differing opinions. Sometimes though, things need to be called out as they are. The person behind this website is an idiot. There just aren't two ways about it. Idiot. Dumbass. Moron. To dignify him with having a point that's worthy of debate is to destroy the very concept of intelligent dicussion. I mean, we wouldn't take Freedom Williams' statements regarding Martians and their seeming inability to talk, (but willingness to rap) seriously, would we? This is just as stupid - no, wait - it's more stupid.


Ben said...

Islam is not a religion. Islam is a way of life. The most important revelation is the bottom line nature of that way of life. Moe said it best in these words.

Bukhari Ch 61 # 2756: ...It is mentioned from Ibn 'Umar from the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, "My provision has been placed under the shadow of my spear, and abasement and humility have been placed on the one who disobeys my command.

Most ahadith have no context, they are short stories passed down by oral tradition before being codified. That one has been Bowdlerized from most on line collections other than that at You can find confirmation in Ibn Kathir's Tafsir at 57&tid= 52680 .

Moe derived his income, wealth, power and sex slaves by armed force. Islam was created for the purpose of warmongering. The fabulistic faith component served to motivate his warriors and camouflage his true intention.

In my blog posts, I provide links to authentic Islamic source documents so that the reader can verify the information and delve more deeply into the texts. In the relatively short post you cited, I included eight links to the Qur'an and hadith.

The last ahadith cited in that post, Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386, is remarkably similar to this bit of information about the Barbary pirates from Wikipedia.

In 1786 Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). They asked him by what right he extorted money and took slaves. Jefferson reported to Secretary of State John Jay, and to the Congress:

The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet (Mohammed), that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman (or Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to heaven. [3]

Intelligent readers will be able to make the connection. Liberals, blinded by prejudice, have difficulty discerning the congruent pattern formed by Islam's recitation, sunnah, sira & tahrik. Reading The Prophet Of Doom and Jihad:The Islamic Doctrine of Permanent War should help You can find links to them at Crusader's Armory.

Lance Christian Johnson said...

That's fantastic. You're a genius.

You haven't addressed ANY of my points. Let's just say that I agree with you and it SHOULD be illegal, how the hell is this going to happen? It's not going to happen...ever.

And you're still pulling random quotes out of context. I could play the same game with Christianity, but I know that's disingenuous.

I'm sorry, but I AM an intelligent reader, and I can see your horseshit for what it is.

Ben said...

If Hitler's officers had memorized his rants and compiled them into a book, it would be a parallel to the Koran.

The Koran is a collection of Moe's rabble rousing rants, nothing more. Unfortunately, Moe declared it Allah's guidance for man, timeless, perfect, to be believed and acted carried out.

8:39 commands Muslims to make perpetual war on pagans. But you can't connect that with the invasion, pillage and plunder of north Africa and nearly half of Asia.

9:29 commands Muslims to make perpetual war on Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians. But you can't connect that with the conquest of Persia, the Roman Province of Syria and Southern & Eastern Europe.

In Books 52, 53 & 59 ofBukhari's collection of authentic sayings,Moe is described prescribing conquest, engaging in it and authorizing the rape of captive women taken in war. But you can't make the connection.

Ibn Kathir's Tafsir shouts the good news that Islam will dominate the Christian world, but you can't make the connection.

The authentic handbook of Islamic law says the Caliph makes war on Jews and Christians but you can't connect that with Rodwell's translation of 9:29 "Make war upon...".

The Dey of Algiers told Jefferson that they attacked our shipping because it was written in their holy book, but you can't make the connection.

It's called willful blindness.

Lance Christian Johnson said...

It's called being completely obtuse, Ben. Look, I could pull out a bunch of quotes from the Koran that make it sound like a book about peace and freedom - so what? I'm not denying that the Koran has some messed up teachings. I'll even go so far as to say that it might be slightly more violent in its teachings than the Bible.

But that's not my point, Ben. My point, which you once again refuse to even address, is HOW WOULD YOU ENFORCE A BAN ON ISLAM?

Please answer this, and the rest of my questions in the original post (like what do you do with those who don't believe that the Koran should be taken literally, yet consider themselves to be Muslim.)

If you simply respond with more out-of-context quotes, then I will be forced to stand by my oringal statement, which is that you're an idiot.

Nolan said...

Mohammed was a warrior. Jesus was a hippie. Still, both religions (and all others) have used their profits as an excuse to commit violence and persecute others.
In fact, as far as all these historical references Ben keeps throwing out there goes, Christians have a ton more blood on their hands than Muslims, and it's spread over much more of the world.
I always get the sense that people who hate Islam so much and worried about its effects really just want a theocracy of their own where no one else will challenge their beliefs.
And comparing Hitler's rants to the Koran is such a clearly bullshit attack it almost makes me feel sorry for you a little.
Still, you haven't answered Lance's original query: How would you make believing in Islam illegal? Do you have thought police, like in "1984"? Are you going to burn books? If so, what about the one where Pope Alexander II exhorts his troops to kill infidels (sound familiar?)? Oh, and obviously Mein Kampf.
If you respond with any more of your silly-ass Koran quotes, you are a coward.

Ben said...

Effective enforcement of a ban on Islam would require:
1. Closure of all Mosques, Masjids, Madrassas & Islamic Centers.

2. Deportation of all Muslim illegal aliens.

3. Deportation of all legal resident Muslim aliens.

4. Blocking Muslim immigration, tourism, business & educational visas.

5. Careful surveilance of Muslim citizens.

None of those measures would be easy to carry out effectively. All of them would require an amendment to the Constitution to specifically exclude Islam from the set of religions protected by the first amendment.

The status of 'moderate' Muslims is dynamic, not static. Each time some British Muslim goes splodydope, his relatives tell how 'moderate' kind, gentle, generous and peace loving he was. You don't know what a Muslim believes or what he will do until its too late to do anything to stop the carnage.

The fact is that the Koran describes itself as Allah's perfected, immutable and final guidance to man. It tells Muslims to obey Allah and his Messenger. It threatens those who shirk with Hellfire and promises wine & virgins to those who carry out the orders.

Islam is a carrot and stick system for motivating men to engage in piracy.

There is a clear and congruent pattern formed by recitation, sira, sunnah & fiqh.

Islam is mercenary & martial and it can not be improved. Perfection can only be defiled, not improved. It was created for the purpose of enriching and empowering its founder. It is perpetuated for the purpose of enriching and empowering his Caliphs.

Lance Christian Johnson said...

Okay, I take it back. You're not an idiot.

What you are though, is frightening. I don't trust the likes of you anymore than I trust the Muslim extremists.

Nolan said...

I echo Lance's statements completely. I am WAY more afraid of people like you than Muslim fanatics.
People call liberals un-American, but what you've suggested is just about the most un-American shit I've ever read.
You are fucking insane, and I say that with no irony.
Here's one WITH irony: I'm glad you pointed out how the Koran is like Hitler's ramblings. Because you're clearly not Muslim, the stark resemblance of your "rules" to the same sanctions that were imposed on Jews under Hitler's reign don's seem nearly as twisted.

Dan said...

Wow! This guy has the balls to connect Islam with Hitler! What he is proposing seems just as bad as what Hitler did.
This guy's ideas are on par with good 'ol Bush and Cheney -- who, if not already, will be monitoring all Muslim citizens (not to mention everyone else) as part of their 'War on Terror...' Scary shit!